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  • #12691
    EskeRahn
    EskeRahn
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    Btw, I personnally prefer SYM, ALT, STRG, ENT, ESC

    as all caps version :-)

    Personally do not mind if they use Sym/SYM/sym, as long as it is the same format on all the keys with text. I don’t like a mix like “Strg”+”SYM” :)

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    #12698
    koennecke
    koennecke
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    My German is limited I am afraid! My classes obviously didn’t go that far :D

    *LOL* Same here we both lack “German abbreviations I”.

    My first thought was “Strange” *LOL*

    (it stands for “Steuerung” though – etymologically same word as English “steering”)

    Actually, steering is Lenkung (used for vehicles).
    Steuerung is control.

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    #12706
    EskeRahn
    EskeRahn
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    Actually, steering is Lenkung (used for vehicles).

    Oh, sorry if I was unclear: Etymologically the same, and also etymologically the same as the Danish variant “Styring”, that in Danish can be used both for steering and control (Though we also have “Kontrol”, but that is leaning more towards checking than handling). It is so funny how words that some time back in history have been the same can slowly change differently in different languages or dialects. Yes, I have a soft spot for etymology :)

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    #12709
    EskeRahn
    EskeRahn
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    …And getting a little more off topic, look at the texts “UMSHALTER” und “FESTSTELLER” for “Shift” and “Shift lock” on this old Swizz typewriter (from here)
    We better have symbols *LOL*
    Swiss typewriter

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    #12713
    EskeRahn
    EskeRahn
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    One question to the suggested Layout: Why is the order of the brackets like that: { [ ] } and not like thath { } [ ].
    It is not a big problem but seems rather special.

    Below a crop from a PC QWERTZ keyboards, so it is to get close to that.

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    #12720
    koennecke
    koennecke
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    Yes, I have a soft spot for etymology :)

    Only ignorant people do not <3
    “Kontrolle” or the verb “kontrollieren” in german has a subset meaning that would cover the function of the “control” button but is not used like this in german. The supervise/check/monitor meaning is the dominant as in danish as i now learned from you.
    Steuerung is not even perfect though, the function would need the verb “steuern” to make complete sense. The english control is also the verb form but makes no difference. Most people even say “steuer + V” when meaning “Steuerung + V”. Concluding in Str/STR/str would be the most appropriate nerdy but uncommon solution.
    Imo “Die Steuerung” suggests a whole controlpanel/steering-device/controlunit and is slightly since forever.

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    #12724
    koennecke
    koennecke
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    We better have symbols *LOL*

    Yep. Agreed.
    Preventing the “denglish” mix up when using shift and caps/caplk side by side with strg/entf was the reason for me taking action and critize the first version Chen posted on twitter.
    The word Umschalten is super hard to shorten. Umschlt or Umslt read hilariously in german and are not much shorter.

    I am all for full symbol use where possible.
    And like you said, please no mix up in cases. My favourite would be all small caps since all of them are verbs(?)

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    #12728
    dreamflasher
    dreamflasher
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    +1 for ⇩ instead of “caps”. And I am strongly in favor of having strg/alt/sym in the same format, with a slight preference for all lowercase.

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    #12745
    Keyahnig
    Keyahnig
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    Honestly I don’t think anyone would be bothered if they just used the English abbreviations (like “ctrl” instead of “strg”). That’s how it’s done on the Swiss layout and I feel like nobody even notices that it’s different from the German one. Might be less confusing for non-German people too.

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    #12768
    EskeRahn
    EskeRahn
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    Honestly I don’t think anyone would be bothered if they just used the English abbreviations (like “ctrl” instead of “strg”). That’s how it’s done on the Swiss layout and I feel like nobody even notices that it’s different from the German one. Might be less confusing for non-German people too.

    A great idea in my book. As previously described this layout would only be a few keys away from the ones used in Sweden/Norway/Finland/Denmark, and those few could easily be remembered by hart. So would be better than the standard left-shifted QWERTY for me and others in the Scandinavian countries too I believe. And the English abbreviations are what we are used to see. I don’t think I have ever seen a PC-keyboard with words/abbreviations in either of the Scandinavian languages. (Though some Swedish have the down arrow for CapsLock)

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    #12790
    dreamflasher
    dreamflasher
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    My native language is German, I personally wouldn’t be bothered having ctrl instead of strg, I think most people wouldn’t mind, but it’s not on me to speak for them and I could be wrong.

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    #12822
    daxxy
    daxxy
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    This guy’s change makes no sense to me. He moved # to FN+3 and removed § for no reason. This deviates from QWERTZ and I don’t see why you would do that, especially removing a symbol.

    I think you’re mixing up the versions. Liangchen’s version had # on FN+3, sailfishmods/@xcvpx put § back on there and moved # to FN+Ä.

    I agree that @xcvpx’s version is an improvement.

    Building on that, I think the PC QWERTZ assignment of “Shift+< is >” is more natural than “FN+< is >”, but that’s nitpicking.

    More importantly: Currently the key next to backspace is the grave accent (`). This is inconsistent with PC QWERTZ, where the acute accent (´) is assigned to that key, and Shift+´is `. This is definitely unexpected (though I could see the change being helpful for people working with programming/shell languages where the grave accent, or backtick, has meaning but the acute accent doesn’t). Either way, how would you get an acute accent(ed letter) on FX QWERTZ? Shift+`?

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    #12836
    alex.ruediger
    elvissteinjr
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    I think you’re mixing up the versions. Liangchen’s version had # on FN+3, sailfishmods/@xcvpx put § back on there and moved # to FN+Ä.

    I agree that @xcvpx’s version is an improvement.

    Oh, oops. In this case “that guy” is Liangchen I suppose… okay I messed up there.
    It’s also odd how I didn’t notice that on the other layout images posted here. I kinda just assumed all symbols were in the expected spot since most were and we’ve been talking about sticking close to PC QWERTZ the whole time.

    That version is better then indeed, yeah.

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    #12970
    raphaelcno
    raphaelcno
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    Here is a modified layout, based on the last comments.

    Variant with German “strg”/”entf”:
    Fx-QWERTZ-201904092-1-2019-04-15_RCa-strg

    Variant with English “Ctrl”/”Del”:
    Fx-QWERTZ-201904092-1-2019-04-16_RCa-Ctrl

    Which variant is best?

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    #12989
    Testdevice
    TeZtdevice
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    +1 German
    (“strg” / “entf” or “STRG” / “ENTF”)

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