Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 33 total)
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  • #30840
    jtmurdo
    SirBaconIII
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    It would be in the best interest of F(x)tec to be explicit in stating that, while not hot swappable, the battery is removable as this being the case is basically just as rare as hot swappability; the discrepancy between glass slabs that require you to break something in order to access the battery, let alone remove it, and phones with removable batteries at all is much greater than the discrepancy between phones with batteries that require a screw driver to be removed and phones with batteries that just require your hands to be removed.

    This. It would probably be easier to say “consumer repairable” or something along those lines, just because I (not speaking for everyone of course) would assume easy access to replacing the screen and battery at the very least if I saw that term.

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    #30841
    Noir
    Noir
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    Thanks for the information. Do you have a source link for these details? And did it mention how many open/close cycles were done before the connector wore out and, assuming they did testing with a new connector after that that lasted longer than the best cable, how many cycles did the best cable last?

    Are you saying they will only make parts available to businesses that repair phones and not to consumers who buy phones?

    I got these information from Liangchen at the Hands-on in Düsseldorf, so no link for that.
    There were more than 10.000 cycles, by a machine, which opened and closed the device with the same speed and force all the time, with the latest setup no parts failed. Chen said, since this test always uses the same speed and force for opening and closing, it’s not representative enough. So they hired someone who opened and closed the pro1 several hours every day by hands, and wrote down how often he did it, to get a realistic assumption on the reliability. They thought it through, very convincing, I don”t think we have to be afraid of the cable or the mechanic wearing out too quickly.

    No, I’m not saying that the parts will only be available to businesses. But they the distribution of the parts might be fulfilled by a 3rd party, not the f(x)tec-website/shop itself.

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    #30845
    Gon009
    Gon009
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    It is clearly stated in the FAQ that the Pro1 does not have a removable battery: https://www.fxtec.com/product/fxtec-pro1-pre-order/#toggle-id-9

    However, a man who went to the recent hands-on event says that the battery is removable , and that it merely requires unscrewing to gain access to it.

    It would be in the best interest of F(x)tec to be explicit in stating that, while not hot swappable, the battery is removable as this being the case is basically just as rare as hot swappability; the discrepancy between glass slabs that require you to break something in order to access the battery, let alone remove it, and phones with removable batteries at all is much greater than the discrepancy between phones with batteries that require a screw driver to be removed and phones with batteries that just require your hands to be removed.

    Well, not having “removable battery” doesn’t mean that the battery can’t be removed at all, it means that you have to disassemble the phone to do this instead of replacing it like an AA battery by opening the case. What you call being “hot swappable” is what “removable” means. If you check for example “phones with removable batteries in 2019” you will get only results of phones having what you call “hot swappable”.

    When it comes to non removable batteries, there’s no further classification of complexity of it from what I know. One could be so integrated with the phone that replacing it could be almost impossible, other could be easy to replace like it will be in Pro1. Removable is not the same as replaceable. The Pro1 has clearly non removable battery but it will be not that difficult to replace. So everything in FAQ is correct, they just could add that replacing it is easier than in usual phones. I think they could add also the information about phone being made for easier repairs for other parts.

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    #30848
    sic_zer0
    netman
    Participant
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 147
    Thanked: 257 times

    It is clearly stated in the FAQ that the Pro1 does not have a removable battery: https://www.fxtec.com/product/fxtec-pro1-pre-order/#toggle-id-9

    However, a man who went to the recent hands-on event says that the battery is removable , and that it merely requires unscrewing to gain access to it.

    It would be in the best interest of F(x)tec to be explicit in stating that, while not hot swappable, the battery is removable as this being the case is basically just as rare as hot swappability; the discrepancy between glass slabs that require you to break something in order to access the battery, let alone remove it, and phones with removable batteries at all is much greater than the discrepancy between phones with batteries that require a screw driver to be removed and phones with batteries that just require your hands to be removed.

    Removing the screws possibly voids the warranty though, so I am not sure they are free to advertise that as a selling point. Also they might not be wanting to make official statements until the device is released… Those are just guesses though.

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    #30856
    david
    david
    Participant
    Topics: 2
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    There were more than 10.000 cycles, by a machine, which opened and closed the device with the same speed and force all the time, with the latest setup no parts failed. Chen said, since this test always uses the same speed and force for opening and closing, it’s not representative enough. So they hired someone who opened and closed the pro1 several hours every day by hands, and wrote down how often he did it, to get a realistic assumption on the reliability. They thought it through, very convincing, I don”t think we have to be afraid of the cable or the mechanic wearing out too quickly.

    Is it just me, or does that not seem like a representative number of times to others too? If someone opens it once every 5 minutes, for 16 hours a day, that’s about 200 times per day. 10,000 times, in that scenario, is only 50 days of use.

    No, I’m not saying that the parts will only be available to businesses. But they the distribution of the parts might be fulfilled by a 3rd party, not the f(x)tec-website/shop itself.

    Okay, good. I was hoping it was something like that. :-)

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    #30870
    EskeRahn
    EskeRahn
    Keymaster
    Topics: 11
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    There were more than 10.000 cycles, by a machine, which opened and closed the device with the same speed and force all the time, with the latest setup no parts failed. Chen said, since this test always uses the same speed and force for opening and closing, it’s not representative enough. So they hired someone who opened and closed the pro1 several hours every day by hands, and wrote down how often he did it, to get a realistic assumption on the reliability. They thought it through, very convincing, I don”t think we have to be afraid of the cable or the mechanic wearing out too quickly.

    Is it just me, or does that not seem like a representative number of times to others too? If someone opens it once every 5 minutes, for 16 hours a day, that’s about 200 times per day. 10,000 times, in that scenario, is only 50 days of use.

    Well I think it is to estimate a realistic number of daily opens they tried to have some register this.
    I guess that if someone needs to use the keyboard every 5 minutes, it would be unlikely that they closed it in between. And 16h is a long time doing nothing else than interacting with the phone. I mean for my normal usage it would certainly also be interacting with apps that do not take text input for normal usage, so I will use it as a slab also.

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    #30875
    rejujacob
    rejujacob
    Participant
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 6
    Thanked: 9 times

    Thanks for the information. Do you have a source link for these details? And did it mention how many open/close cycles were done before the connector wore out and, assuming they did testing with a new connector after that that lasted longer than the best cable, how many cycles did the best cable last?

    Are you saying they will only make parts available to businesses that repair phones and not to consumers who buy phones?

    I got these information from Liangchen at the Hands-on in Düsseldorf, so no link for that.

    There were more than 10.000 cycles, by a machine, which opened and closed the device with the same speed and force all the time, with the latest setup no parts failed. Chen said, since this test always uses the same speed and force for opening and closing, it’s not representative enough. So they hired someone who opened and closed the pro1 several hours every day by hands, and wrote down how often he did it, to get a realistic assumption on the reliability. They thought it through, very convincing, I don”t think we have to be afraid of the cable or the mechanic wearing out too quickly.

    No, I’m not saying that the parts will only be available to businesses. But they the distribution of the parts might be fulfilled by a 3rd party, not the f(x)tec-website/shop itself.

    Last week I have received the following reply from Team F(x)Tech for a similar query:

    ” We’ve tested the Pro1 with 100k slide cycles, both by robots and a human testers. While there were issues with early prototypes, we have since then updated the flex cable and the device can comfortable go above 100k slide cycles.”

    Considering a conservative average use of keyboard, say once every 15 mins and 12 hours usage per day, it works out 48 slides cycles per day.
    So it should be fine for about 5-6 years. It’s not necessary that every time we pick up the phone we will use the keyboard and some short replies may be done from screen only?

    Cheers!

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    #30883
    Gon009
    Gon009
    Participant
    Topics: 0
    Replies: 17
    Thanked: 30 times

    It is clearly stated in the FAQ that the Pro1 does not have a removable battery: https://www.fxtec.com/product/fxtec-pro1-pre-order/#toggle-id-9

    However, a man who went to the recent hands-on event says that the battery is removable , and that it merely requires unscrewing to gain access to it.

    It would be in the best interest of F(x)tec to be explicit in stating that, while not hot swappable, the battery is removable as this being the case is basically just as rare as hot swappability; the discrepancy between glass slabs that require you to break something in order to access the battery, let alone remove it, and phones with removable batteries at all is much greater than the discrepancy between phones with batteries that require a screw driver to be removed and phones with batteries that just require your hands to be removed.

    Removing the screws possibly voids the warranty though, so I am not sure they are free to advertise that as a selling point. Also they might not be wanting to make official statements until the device is released… Those are just guesses though.

    Yeah, I guess that opening the phone voids the warranty but they could still advertise it as an answer to predictable lifespan of the device. The answer could be something like “After the warranty expires, replacing screen, battery or the USB port to prolong the lifespan of your device doesn’t require special tools for gluing/soldering because these parts are accessible by removing screws. Remember that removing screws before warranty expires voids it.”. So it says that the phone is expected to work ever after warranty and any malfunctions past the warranty period won’t turn it into piece of electronic trash. I think it’s especially important because I’m sure that most of small, local phone repair services will see that phone for the first time ever after someone brings it to them after the warranty expires. People will know that the Pro1 isn’t some kind of devilish phone that nobody will try to fix for them because of complexity or because it’s exotic phone and also will know that with enough skill they can repair it by themselves and save some money. I’m sure that in 5 years Pro1 will still be used by people who bought it.

    I guess that for many people Pro1 will be their most expensive phone ever bought, however when looking at the fact that Pro1 is a phone made to work for a long time then buying it or few budget 250 euro phones that are made to survive only 2 years means practically spending the same amount of money over all these years, suddenly 650 euro doesn’t seem like that huge price.

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    #30903
    sic_zer0
    netman
    Participant
    Topics: 4
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    100k cycles is pretty good I guess, I really doubt i would open the phone 48 times a day, I think I unlock my normal slab like 4-5 times a day, although the keyboard would make me use it a bit more than a slab phone and it looks pretty addictive to open/close on videos. And I’ve not encountered much problems with sliders and fliphones before, even ones with cheap plasticky mechanisms.

    I hope they make parts available directly from china or from within europe also, as ordering from ifixit means things pass by customs adding administration costs along with the duties and taxes if over 22eur (if i am not mistaken).

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #30905
    sic_zer0
    netman
    Participant
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 147
    Thanked: 257 times

    The answer could be something like “After the warranty expires, replacing screen, battery or the USB port to prolong the lifespan of your device doesn’t require special tools for gluing/soldering because these parts are accessible by removing screws. Remember that removing screws before warranty expires voids it.”.

    That would definitely catch my eye and be a good selling point :). I tend to void warranties as soon as i verified something works as expected, by checking what is inside and/or customizing it to my liking.

    I guess that for many people Pro1 will be their most expensive phone ever bought, however when looking at the fact that Pro1 is a phone made to work for a long time then buying it or few budget 250 euro phones that are made to survive only 2 years means practically spending the same amount of money over all these years, suddenly 650 euro doesn’t seem like that huge price.

    It definitely is the most I’ve spent on a phone before and I’ve never even been so impatient and adventurous to pre-order something, but considering the specs of the phone and how well it all looks to be implemented I’d say the price is good. I even manage to stretch the lifetime of budget phones to over 5 years so it’ll be good, and the keyboard means it is also much more useful than any other phone would be :).

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    #30912
    david
    david
    Participant
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 64
    Thanked: 72 times

    There were more than 10.000 cycles, by a machine, which opened and closed the device with the same speed and force all the time, with the latest setup no parts failed. Chen said, since this test always uses the same speed and force for opening and closing, it’s not representative enough. So they hired someone who opened and closed the pro1 several hours every day by hands, and wrote down how often he did it, to get a realistic assumption on the reliability. They thought it through, very convincing, I don”t think we have to be afraid of the cable or the mechanic wearing out too quickly.

    Is it just me, or does that not seem like a representative number of times to others too? If someone opens it once every 5 minutes, for 16 hours a day, that’s about 200 times per day. 10,000 times, in that scenario, is only 50 days of use.

    Well I think it is to estimate a realistic number of daily opens they tried to have some register this.

    I guess that if someone needs to use the keyboard every 5 minutes, it would be unlikely that they closed it in between. And 16h is a long time doing nothing else than interacting with the phone. I mean for my normal usage it would certainly also be interacting with apps that do not take text input for normal usage, so I will use it as a slab also.

    That’s not how I use my phone, but I could be in the minority. I get text messages or other instant messages all through the day. I keep my phone in its holster. When I get a message, I take it out, open it, reply to the message(s), close it again, and return it to the holster (or desk/table). And without any bezel on this, I’ll be sure to close it every single time I’m not holding it in case it falls.

    I do my browsing in landscape mode with the keyboard out. Email = keyboard out. I don’t use a lot more apps as often as the ones that require keyboard input.

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    #30913
    david
    david
    Participant
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 64
    Thanked: 72 times

    Thanks for the information. Do you have a source link for these details? And did it mention how many open/close cycles were done before the connector wore out and, assuming they did testing with a new connector after that that lasted longer than the best cable, how many cycles did the best cable last?

    Are you saying they will only make parts available to businesses that repair phones and not to consumers who buy phones?

    I got these information from Liangchen at the Hands-on in Düsseldorf, so no link for that.

    There were more than 10.000 cycles, by a machine, which opened and closed the device with the same speed and force all the time, with the latest setup no parts failed. Chen said, since this test always uses the same speed and force for opening and closing, it’s not representative enough. So they hired someone who opened and closed the pro1 several hours every day by hands, and wrote down how often he did it, to get a realistic assumption on the reliability. They thought it through, very convincing, I don”t think we have to be afraid of the cable or the mechanic wearing out too quickly.

    No, I’m not saying that the parts will only be available to businesses. But they the distribution of the parts might be fulfilled by a 3rd party, not the f(x)tec-website/shop itself.

    Last week I have received the following reply from Team F(x)Tech for a similar query:

    ” We’ve tested the Pro1 with 100k slide cycles, both by robots and a human testers. While there were issues with early prototypes, we have since then updated the flex cable and the device can comfortable go above 100k slide cycles.”

    Considering a conservative average use of keyboard, say once every 15 mins and 12 hours usage per day, it works out 48 slides cycles per day.

    So it should be fine for about 5-6 years. It’s not necessary that every time we pick up the phone we will use the keyboard and some short replies may be done from screen only?

    Cheers!

    Okay, so the 10,000 was missing a 0. That seems more reasonable. If we got by my use case, that is about 500 days, or 1.4 years. Not great, but better than less than 2 months. And they said it can go above 100K slides. Hopefully the cable will be easy to replace and the cost won’t be ridiculous (I can get a whole Relay 4G phone for not much more than the price of the ribbon cable..or at least I could when the phones were able to be bought….there might not be any new supplies left now). I’m a little concerned about that connector on the PCB, since that might be difficult to source and replace. I hope they do include that in the parts that they make available.

    And no, I do *not* use the virtual keyboard for short replies. That doesn’t mean nobody does, but that’s not how I use a phone with a physical keyboard.

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    #31295
    rejujacob
    rejujacob
    Participant
    Topics: 1
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    Please see my correspondence with them regarding spares/ repairs.

    Me: Is it possible to ship only flex screen cables/ Keyboard/ battery to India (as per requirement), in case I can have it changed locally?
    F(x)Tec: We do not currently know how the repairs process will work. To my knowledge, only our service locations will be able to fix the devices.
    Me: Sending mobile to the only service locations in UK and US may not be feasible for many. Especially after the warranty (2 years). But local repair shops here can do a good job, but they will of course need the main spare parts which may be available only with you considering the limited manufacturing/ sales?
    (No further reply)

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    #31309
    EskeRahn
    EskeRahn
    Keymaster
    Topics: 11
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    Please see my correspondence with them regarding spares/ repairs.

    Me: Is it possible to ship only flex screen cables/ Keyboard/ battery to India (as per requirement), in case I can have it changed locally?

    F(x)Tec: We do not currently know how the repairs process will work. To my knowledge, only our service locations will be able to fix the devices.

    Me: Sending mobile to the only service locations in UK and US may not be feasible for many. Especially after the warranty (2 years). But local repair shops here can do a good job, but they will of course need the main spare parts which may be available only with you considering the limited manufacturing/ sales?

    (No further reply)

    Remember that we know that at the least the display is a ‘standard’ part from Boe (type number BF060Y8M-AJ0-7702), also used on other devices. e.g the “Elephone U Pro”. It is already available on e.g. AliExpress for less than $75, here a search https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&SearchText=display+elephone+u+pro

    We do not (yet) know what other parts are “standard”. But I expect at the least the battery to be too, as I doubt there would be a reason to have a special one designed. But of course the keyboard, the PCB and the housing will be special for the Pro1. We will have to wait for the info going public – or e.g. ifixit takes one apart.

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    #31341
    Noir
    Noir
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    Topics: 1
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    During the warranty period, there will be no other choice than having the device replaced, if the damage was not caused by the user.
    After the dust settles, maybe there will be other choices and authorized repair shops.

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