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  • #15989
    EskeRahn
    EskeRahn
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    I think also it will be a fairly niche product, and maybe some non-keyboard-addicts would still be willing to get their feet wet at the set price after reviews show it off and fxtec becomes somewhat more known. I’m glad that they went for a somewhat high-end phone rather than giving us cheap hardware at a cheap price… I doubt they could manage the same hardware for a cheaper price, looking at prices of other similarly specced devices. And as for people like me and eskerahn… I think we both are just itching to get rid of the some money and get our hands on this device as it’s the only option in a category.

    Agree. Just like the BB Priv that was also ‘overpriced for the rest of the specs’, I still bought it.
    The Moto Z series similarly, if you just look at specs, severely overpriced. But had the Keyboard Mod been realised I planned to buy a Z-series device for it, despite the overprice. (And yes, that way around, a device for the keyboard, not a keyboard for the device!)
    (And before the Priv, I bought some different Keyboards for Iphones, and then an Iphone for them – but HATED Ios)

    #15992
    sic_zer0
    netman
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    I think also it will be a fairly niche product, and maybe some non-keyboard-addicts would still be willing to get their feet wet at the set price after reviews show it off and fxtec becomes somewhat more known. I’m glad that they went for a somewhat high-end phone rather than giving us cheap hardware at a cheap price… I doubt they could manage the same hardware for a cheaper price, looking at prices of other similarly specced devices. And as for people like me and eskerahn… I think we both are just itching to get rid of the some money and get our hands on this device as it’s the only option in a category.

    Agree. Just like the BB Priv that was also ‘overpriced for the rest of the specs’, I still bought it.

    The Moto Z series similarly, if you just look at specs, severely overpriced. But had the Keyboard Mod been realised I planned to buy a Z-series device for it, despite the overprice. (And yes, that way around, a device for the keyboard, not a keyboard for the device!)

    (And before the Priv, I bought some different Keyboards for Iphones, and then an Iphone for them – but HATED Ios)

    I’ve been quite tempted to buy a priv before but the weird too long portrait layout and impossibility to get root held me back each time, but many people gotten it and the other android blackberries, also the planet computers gemini and cosmo seem to have a fair following albeit they are more of a laptop-style device meant for typing with it sitting on a table. Spec-wise the pro1 just blows them all off the table for around the same price point. I was following the keyboardmod with some scepticism on account of it being a kickstarter and probably would have gotten a phone for it if it went as a retail product, but seems in many ways that took a turn for the better even though being considered a “failure” :).

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    #15993
    VaZso
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    The Moto Z series similarly, if you just look at specs, severely overpriced. But had the Keyboard Mod been realised I planned to buy a Z-series device for it, despite the overprice. (And yes, that way around, a device for the keyboard, not a keyboard for the device!)

    I agree. For me, I have backed Keyboard Mod’s Kickstarter project, but did not want to buy a Moto Z phone till I don’t hold one keyboard in my hands and I think its quality is good for a while. As Keyboard Mod was not launched, I have not bought that phone – so for me, I have also wanted a device for the keyboard and not a keyboard for device. Without Keyboard Mod, I simply don’t need Moto Z.

    I was also treated Keyboard Mod project as something like a risk investment from the beginning considering the worst result would be the no money and no hardware situation, but from this view point, every other results are good news.

    I am very excited to see this phone is my hands. :)

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    #15997
    gtmaster303
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    I’ll be honest, for a new company at first I thought the price was ok, but I’m starting to get a little less forgiving now. Nearly all manufacturers have released new phones over the past 6 months, some getting discounts shortly after release. I doubt this phone will drop in price after release. It’s a tough pill to swallow when you’re asking 700 for a new phone. I’ve never spent so much on a device before. Always bought pre-owned handsets or handsets on sale.

    I know development costs are not cheap and they need to make money but I think the price will scare many away. Same thing happened to the blackberry priv. It was too overpriced and it died out fast in a firesale.

    Keep in mind this phone has to go beyond niche markets to do well.

    The average consumer is not going to spend 700 for a new phone from a new manufacturer they’ve never heard of when household brands are pumping out reliable phones that have been perfected over the years for the same or less. The lower the price, the more a consumer may be willing to go out on a limb and try it for the keyboard novelty.

    I hate to sound negative but I’m trying to paint a reality check. I want this device to succeed. I want keyboards to come back. I want them to make another. But the odds are stacked against them.

    If they proceed with the proposed price, the only way out is overwhelmingly positive reviews. And the device has to be perfect. I’m not kidding when I say PERFECT.

    First of it is 650 and not 700, but that is almost splitting sticks.

    But seen from my perspective this IS a niche product, and will never be a ‘mass product’ selling millions (I would love to be proven wrong though…)

    In my view it simply is a limited segment that type that much that they can see the benefits of a real keyboard over the software substitutes. AND even if they do see it, there is a trade of in size and weight that have to be considered. So for those that type sms, email, browses etc with a mean of say 100-200 strokes a day, and use their device primarily for calling and e.g. images, well then the touch phablets or phones out there would most likely be the better suited for their usage pattern. And even some intensive ‘typers’ would insist on portrait, and some will not accept the larger device of a physical keyboard. And even a good chunk of real keyboard lovers prefer a keyboard in the wrong direction (just browse a bit on crackberry)…

    Sure a lower price would always attract more buyers, but even if it was sold at the material cost price (what ever that is), ignoring all development, software, marketing and investments costs it would still be a niche product.

    But I would agree with you that the price matters. Had it been much cheaper I would most likely have bought several, simply to have as spares, now I think I will limit my self to two or three…. I have been crying for something like this for almost ten years, and who knows if they will make a pro2, or it will be another ten years…. I would just hate the risk of NOT having bought enough to last…

    My preorder says $694 with VAT, but as you mentioned, “splitting sticks”
    If this phone is a niche product it will live and die as such. But i’m going to stay optimistic as the company seems to genuinely care about the device and it’s users. It’s done things none of the big players have done.
    Aftermarket rom support, an easily replaceable battery, the push for continual improvement, and software updates rivaling the pixel line. No one else can boast these features
    I’ve never paid full price for any phone but I’m ready to pay for this one and I think that speaks volumes for my support. Hopefully they can forge a path that other companies would not or could not do.

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    #15998
    gtmaster303
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    I’ll be honest, for a new company at first I thought the price was ok, but I’m starting to get a little less forgiving now. Nearly all manufacturers have released new phones over the past 6 months, some getting discounts shortly after release. I doubt this phone will drop in price after release. It’s a tough pill to swallow when you’re asking 700 for a new phone. I’ve never spent so much on a device before. Always bought pre-owned handsets or handsets on sale.

    I know development costs are not cheap and they need to make money but I think the price will scare many away. Same thing happened to the blackberry priv. It was too overpriced and it died out fast in a firesale.

    Keep in mind this phone has to go beyond niche markets to do well.

    The average consumer is not going to spend 700 for a new phone from a new manufacturer they’ve never heard of when household brands are pumping out reliable phones that have been perfected over the years for the same or less. The lower the price, the more a consumer may be willing to go out on a limb and try it for the keyboard novelty.

    I hate to sound negative but I’m trying to paint a reality check. I want this device to succeed. I want keyboards to come back. I want them to make another. But the odds are stacked against them.

    If they proceed with the proposed price, the only way out is overwhelmingly positive reviews. And the device has to be perfect. I’m not kidding when I say PERFECT.

    First of it is 650 and not 700, but that is almost splitting sticks.

    But seen from my perspective this IS a niche product, and will never be a ‘mass product’ selling millions (I would love to be proven wrong though…)

    In my view it simply is a limited segment that type that much that they can see the benefits of a real keyboard over the software substitutes. AND even if they do see it, there is a trade of in size and weight that have to be considered. So for those that type sms, email, browses etc with a mean of say 100-200 strokes a day, and use their device primarily for calling and e.g. images, well then the touch phablets or phones out there would most likely be the better suited for their usage pattern. And even some intensive ‘typers’ would insist on portrait, and some will not accept the larger device of a physical keyboard. And even a good chunk of real keyboard lovers prefer a keyboard in the wrong direction (just browse a bit on crackberry)…

    Sure a lower price would always attract more buyers, but even if it was sold at the material cost price (what ever that is), ignoring all development, software, marketing and investments costs it would still be a niche product.

    But I would agree with you that the price matters. Had it been much cheaper I would most likely have bought several, simply to have as spares, now I think I will limit my self to two or three…. I have been crying for something like this for almost ten years, and who knows if they will make a pro2, or it will be another ten years…. I would just hate the risk of NOT having bought enough to last…

    I think also it will be a fairly niche product, and maybe some non-keyboard-addicts would still be willing to get their feet wet at the set price after reviews show it off and fxtec becomes somewhat more known. I’m glad that they went for a somewhat high-end phone rather than giving us cheap hardware at a cheap price… I doubt they could manage the same hardware for a cheaper price, looking at prices of other similarly specced devices. And as for people like me and eskerahn… I think we both are just itching to get rid of the some money and get our hands on this device as it’s the only option in a category.

    What do you mean? The specs of this phone can be found in other handsets for nearly half the price. I think the reason their price is higher is due to development costs and volume, or lack of volume rather

    #16000
    sic_zer0
    netman
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    I’ll be honest, for a new company at first I thought the price was ok, but I’m starting to get a little less forgiving now. Nearly all manufacturers have released new phones over the past 6 months, some getting discounts shortly after release. I doubt this phone will drop in price after release. It’s a tough pill to swallow when you’re asking 700 for a new phone. I’ve never spent so much on a device before. Always bought pre-owned handsets or handsets on sale.

    I know development costs are not cheap and they need to make money but I think the price will scare many away. Same thing happened to the blackberry priv. It was too overpriced and it died out fast in a firesale.

    Keep in mind this phone has to go beyond niche markets to do well.

    The average consumer is not going to spend 700 for a new phone from a new manufacturer they’ve never heard of when household brands are pumping out reliable phones that have been perfected over the years for the same or less. The lower the price, the more a consumer may be willing to go out on a limb and try it for the keyboard novelty.

    I hate to sound negative but I’m trying to paint a reality check. I want this device to succeed. I want keyboards to come back. I want them to make another. But the odds are stacked against them.

    If they proceed with the proposed price, the only way out is overwhelmingly positive reviews. And the device has to be perfect. I’m not kidding when I say PERFECT.

    First of it is 650 and not 700, but that is almost splitting sticks.

    But seen from my perspective this IS a niche product, and will never be a ‘mass product’ selling millions (I would love to be proven wrong though…)

    In my view it simply is a limited segment that type that much that they can see the benefits of a real keyboard over the software substitutes. AND even if they do see it, there is a trade of in size and weight that have to be considered. So for those that type sms, email, browses etc with a mean of say 100-200 strokes a day, and use their device primarily for calling and e.g. images, well then the touch phablets or phones out there would most likely be the better suited for their usage pattern. And even some intensive ‘typers’ would insist on portrait, and some will not accept the larger device of a physical keyboard. And even a good chunk of real keyboard lovers prefer a keyboard in the wrong direction (just browse a bit on crackberry)…

    Sure a lower price would always attract more buyers, but even if it was sold at the material cost price (what ever that is), ignoring all development, software, marketing and investments costs it would still be a niche product.

    But I would agree with you that the price matters. Had it been much cheaper I would most likely have bought several, simply to have as spares, now I think I will limit my self to two or three…. I have been crying for something like this for almost ten years, and who knows if they will make a pro2, or it will be another ten years…. I would just hate the risk of NOT having bought enough to last…

    I think also it will be a fairly niche product, and maybe some non-keyboard-addicts would still be willing to get their feet wet at the set price after reviews show it off and fxtec becomes somewhat more known. I’m glad that they went for a somewhat high-end phone rather than giving us cheap hardware at a cheap price… I doubt they could manage the same hardware for a cheaper price, looking at prices of other similarly specced devices. And as for people like me and eskerahn… I think we both are just itching to get rid of the some money and get our hands on this device as it’s the only option in a category.

    What do you mean? The specs of this phone can be found in other handsets for nearly half the price. I think the reason their price is higher is due to development costs and volume, or lack of volume rather

    I do intend to talk taking into account some extra cost goes to small volume, development and simply the hinge and keyboard mechanism (like 100-150eur on top or so, if not more). Doing a quick search turns up about half the price can get you a pocofone F1 with pretty much the same specs yet no keyboard, so fair enough point however there’s also phones with similar specs going for 400-500 euro that people still seem willing to buy. Maybe best comparable example is blackberry key 2, it goes for nearly as much money as the pro1 with far lesser specs (yet also a keyboard).

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    #16012
    MortisAngelus
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    I’ll be honest, for a new company at first I thought the price was ok, but I’m starting to get a little less forgiving now. Nearly all manufacturers have released new phones over the past 6 months, some getting discounts shortly after release. I doubt this phone will drop in price after release. It’s a tough pill to swallow when you’re asking 700 for a new phone. I’ve never spent so much on a device before. Always bought pre-owned handsets or handsets on sale.

    I know development costs are not cheap and they need to make money but I think the price will scare many away. Same thing happened to the blackberry priv. It was too overpriced and it died out fast in a firesale.

    Keep in mind this phone has to go beyond niche markets to do well.

    The average consumer is not going to spend 700 for a new phone from a new manufacturer they’ve never heard of when household brands are pumping out reliable phones that have been perfected over the years for the same or less. The lower the price, the more a consumer may be willing to go out on a limb and try it for the keyboard novelty.

    I hate to sound negative but I’m trying to paint a reality check. I want this device to succeed. I want keyboards to come back. I want them to make another. But the odds are stacked against them.

    If they proceed with the proposed price, the only way out is overwhelmingly positive reviews. And the device has to be perfect. I’m not kidding when I say PERFECT.

    I would argue the inherent issue here is Samsung, Apple and Huawei. They pretty much set the stage for what is “acceptable” and “normal” prices on devices. Go back to the Galaxy S8 and iPhone 7. Flagship phones releasing for 700 – 800 dollars. Other brands were at 600 for flagships. And OnePlus then was at 400-500.

    But thanks to iPhone X and Galaxy Note 8 (or whichever came the same year as the iPhone X), the norm was suddenly shifted to 1000 dollars for flagship devices – and people still paid! So thus the mid-tier was suddenly 700-800 dollars (previous flagship territory) and “budget phones” were suddenly 400 – 500 dollars. I clashed hard on youtube with Juan Bagnell about this, when I thought it was ridiculous to call 500 dollar phones “budget phones”. But he stated that if the standard now is 700 – 1000 dollars for a phone, so thus a 400-500 dollar phone is budget… Especially thanks to the recent announcement of the 2000 dollar Galaxy Fold and 3500 dollar Huawei folding phone (can’t remember the name)

    And in the very end the real people to blame here are the average consumers; I have so many people at work who are not at all tech enthusiast; they know almost nothing about tech. But yet they shell out money for S9, S10 and iPhone X phones because they want the newest, blingiest stuff, and suddenly 900+ dollars(or EUROs here) is not that much, and the big companies sees this.

    Now how does this relate to F(x)tec and the Pro1? The funny thing with human psychology and how marketing works is that people see price as an indicator for what quality to expect – I do this too no doubt about it. F(x)tec wants to target the mid-tier niche market, so the price has to be set accordingly. I have no doubt, that they could go for a 500 dollar price tag, but that would put the phone (by today’s standars) in the budget “cheap-o” segment that many people would just glance over and kinda ignore.

    The only problem with this, is how niche the product really is: The majority of the target audience is already here and we know about it and we know what we are getting (more or less). So then we are back to the fact that F(x)tec knows we are willing to pay a bit premium for a niche device we really have been waiting 10 years for (more or less), and they also need to cover their investors fast enough with a low volume product –> higher price per performance.

    Did I make any sense at all? :P

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    #16020
    MortisAngelus
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    (To continue my post above:)

    But all that said, then we have phones like these from China that really messes with this price idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnd8Ze1ZqlE

    Red Magic 3

    That is 479 dollars for a phone with SD855, 128 gb storage, 8 GB RAM and 90 hz panel and active cooling (yes, it has a built in fan).

    And when you look at it from that perspective, then the Pro1 is very overpriced. Personally, I would like to see the Pro1 launch at 550 dollars instead. But I also want QWERTY phones back to the market, so I will be okay with the 650 it costs now.

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    #16021
    EskeRahn
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    What do you mean? The specs of this phone can be found in other handsets for nearly half the price. I think the reason their price is higher is due to development costs and volume, or lack of volume rather

    One very very crucial detail is missing in this spec-compare: The keyboard…. And not just a fixed keyboard but a sliding landscape one!!!
    One thing is the price of the keyboard and the development of it alone, like say a BB Key½, but we should also remember that logically ‘splitting’ a standard phone in halves, keeping it well balanced is not an easy thing! This is not just a keyboard ‘drawer’ tugged underneath a phone, it is more like a screen and some other components cut out of the unit and moved to the second half. And this has to be done with a strategically placed cable that is placed so it is not exposed to accidental damage.

    And apart from the extra and non standard components, remember that all the development costs of this has to be distributed over a rather limited number of devices.
    It is not like Samsung/aPple where every million spent rises the price per unit with less than a dollar.

    So that F(x)tec are able to set a price for this similar to the much much simpler Key1/Key2 I find really impressive.
    But SURE as everyone else I would love things to be cheaper, but please, we have to be realistic.

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    #16054
    doktor.oswaldo
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    I am fortunately not a person which needs bling in a phone. So my current phone was approx, 180 euros. And I am a tech-enthusiast (IT professional). But in the end I only watch Netflix on my phone and do typing, so not much power needed. I have no idea why people are spending a grand on a phone to write whatsapp’s. It is beyond my imagination. I mean I am a geek, 6 grands on a pinball machine? sure, 2 on a PC? sure, but what Use-Case makes an Iphone worth a grand? For me there is none.

    My point is:
    For my standards 650 is too expensive as well. Not too expensive for that phone, just too expensive. I would have preferred an even slower SoC for a lower Price.

    But most of the cost probably is R/D and the keyboard, so not much sense to go for low-end HW if it is still 500 euros. And all the reviews are already complaining about the old SoC, so that may have been marketing suicide anyway.

    I have complained about the missing HW-Keyboards since my N900 died in my hands. Now somebody finally makes one again. Now it is the time to decide if it really is as important for me as I told everyone for the last 6 years or so. (Spoler: It is).

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    #16072
    gtmaster303
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    Does anyone know how many devices they need to sell for this to be considered a success?
    The more the better, but is there a number they are aiming to hit?

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